| Author | Message | ||
| Grav |
Something is bothering me. Vaguely I can describe this as a feeling like life has thrown me countless opportunities, but I keep passing them up as if there is something more important I'm after, and anything else will only be a distraction. This can be a very passionate, mysterious, and enjoyable feeling at times, like I'm flowing with my own pure energy, I feel totally independent, like I need no one to hold me up, I have no constraints, and am unafraid to pursue whatever or whomever I want. I feel caught up in the moment and nothing can stop me. It feels like a snapshot taken from the universe, and I want to look and feel my most glamorous. But eventually this energy wears off and I am left feeling confused and lonely. I want someone to take the pain away for me. I become socially anxious... I feel like I have to figure some dire paradox out before it's too late.. was, rinse, repeat... I guess I have a very inconsistent self-esteem, and general outlook on the world. I refuse to give up my passionate energy (like I have a choice anyways), but I feel that it leaves me isolated, like I've put all my eggs in one basket. But if this is my only life, maybe that is the risk I have to take. But.. that is when I feel the most like myself. I am not shackled by any fears or past memories. I feel ready to die in a blaze of glory, I feel ready to walk up to any girl and talk to her. My advice to myself has been to hold onto this feeling and just keep myself busy with the spaces in between. I've started to excercise and be alot more active.. Still it's confusing, how I can feel my direction one moment, and then feel antsy and displaced the next. I think this all has to do with stepping out of my past. | ||
| VOS
|
Grav, I suggest you start practicing meditation, it will help to calm you down and put you in a state of emotional and mental equilibrium. You need to get in touch with your real self and meditation can help you find the true “you.” No matter how confused you are at times, and whatever you do in life, strive to be happy, that's all we have to be. VOS | ||
| Erin McRaven.... also known as Raven Wolf
|
I wish you luck, Grav. I'm in a slightly similar boat...Only now the *highs* you described have vanished. As for meditation... I've heard of it's benifits for years, but no-one has ever been able to expalin what it is that you do, or how you do it. I've spent so much time, sitting on my butt, being quiet, and trying to do...Whatever it is I'm supposed to do...And guess what happenes, If anything at all? I FALL ASLEEP! Oh, brother. How pathetic is that? | ||
| adnan |
hi erin and all I'm new here, and I read some posts. yes, soul is very complicated, and every one had ups and downs. our goal is always to strive to make it more happy in most times. and we can if we tried. meditation is very useful and I use it very often, especially when my mind is full of so many disturbing thoughts, that don't leave me easily. I perceive meditation as the trial to throw all these thoughts and kick them out. the way is to force oneself not to think of any idea whatever important it may be. the simple reason is that no success could be attained in such turmoil of thougts. if one couldn't succeed in throwing out these thoughts easily, then let him try to follow one idea, like breathing, and when any other idea come forth, then let him go again to that former idea. at last the soul subside and one feels relaxed and relieved. after that he can discuss any idea with himself and he'll get correct decisions. sorry, but this is a brief illustration of meditation as I see it, and it is really more than that. try it and good wishes. | ||
| RavenWolf1013@AOL.com
|
So, sit still and force your mind to go black? That's when I fall asleep! LOL! And how does going black give you answers, if you're not supposed to be having any thoughs at all? | ||
| Phoenix |
Hi RW, Here is a beginning meditation exercise: sit still and concentrate on your breathing. Count the breaths, inhale-exhale, if it helps. Don't force it...forcing it is contrary to the practice of trying to relax!  Initially, the object of meditation is to allow your mind to reach a quiet place where you do not dwell on thoughts, good, bad, or otherwise. Much of the stress in our lives comes from reliving bad or upsetting experiences over and over and over in our minds. Everytime we think about it, we get upset all over again. Try practicing this breathing meditation for only five minutes at a time. Breathe, inhale-exhale, and when a thought or idea comes to you, just let it drift away. If you like, you can visualize or imagine that it goes away with your exhale breath. At first, it will seem as if Every Single idea and memory you Ever Had In The World are just banging on your skull for attention. (Oftentimes, the mind is just not used to all this attempted quietness, and it sure doesn't like Change!) Just keep at it, though - only five minutes at a time, twice a day or so - and just let the thoughts go....don't concentrate on any one thought, memory, or idea. Concentrate on the breathing... When you're comfortable with five minutes and can relax without being bombarded with thoughts and memories, increase it to ten minutes a day, and so on. I also suggest you sit up when practicing, especially if you have a tendency to fall asleep. Sit in a comfortable chair or sofa with your feet flat on the floor, arms at your sides, and your hands can rest either at your sides or on your lap, whichever is most comfortable. Avoid leaning your elbows on the arms of a chair or sofa, it pushes the shoulders into an unnatural and often uncomfortable position. Practicing in a dim (not dark), quiet room is a good idea. Playing some soft music is okay, lighting a stick of incense or a candle...whatever you find relaxes you without putting you to sleep. (Many people find total silence impossible at first, so music is often a good idea for someone just starting a meditation practice. Eventually, you won't need it.) It may take a few weeks, but you will make progress if you do it for a few minutes every day. You asked: And how does going black give you answers, if you're not supposed to be having any thoughs at all? Did you ever have the experience where you were looking for something, searching all over the place and just couldn't find it, and then later, when you weren't even thinking about it, you suddenly remembered where it was? It's like that: when you let go of the problem (by going blank), the answer comes. (This problem-solving ability will probably come a bit later in your practice, though. It's worth your while to get a good foundation in the basics, first.) Phoenix | ||
| adnan |
hi all, phoenix is to be thanked for all the effort done for explaining meditation. he might be right in every single word written but... personally I don't like complications, and that is the thing, I think, that make people run away. erin, I suppose, didn't read my post deliberately or, I was not clear enough in my explanation. I mean, when one feels relaxed and relived, and can control his thoughts, then he may select only one subject disturbing his soul, and discuss it in his now clear mind and h'll be surprised how it is been accomplished successfully and eaisly. after that, he selects another subject and so on. the goal is, not to discuss so many subjects in one confused and disturbed mind. as to falling asleep, it is funny to say so, since this is a proof of achieving the practice or, at least, u'r in the way on.and who said that sleeping is bad?! in my opinion, it is the first key to attain full mind and spiritual health; but the fast sleeping like you do in meditation, not the other. however, if you can keep your wakefulness, you'll make use of all the benifits of meditation especially after getting experience in it. I'd like to salute phoenix for supportin me, and good health for all. | ||
| Phoenix |
Hi adnan, Thank you for your support! I didn't mean to complicate the process , but I have found that when people say they tried meditation and it "didn't work" for them, they are often inadvertently doing something that limits their own success....and would you believe posture is almost always one of the problems?! Another common problem is expecting too much of oneself too soon. Early benefits (in the first couple of weeks) are relaxation. I felt you were talking about something much deeper. Some people can get into that deeper "zone" in a week or two, but this is rare. Most people need much more time and patience....two to three months....to get there, and a few tools to use in the beginning (like soft music). I think a lot of people give up the practice of meditation because they don't attain that level of depth in the short amount of time they thought it would happen. This is a shame because, as you pointed out, meditation is so beneficial on so many levels. Phoenix P.S. I'm a "she," not a "he." | ||
| Raven Wolf |
Thank you, Phoenix and adnan. I tried what you said to do today, and sitting still and quiet for 5-7 minutes was actualy pretty easy...and, I guess it's better that I do this early in the day, before I'm quite as tired. I think one reason I kept falling asleep is that I've not been getting enough sleep, so doing this late in the day is a no-no. Of course, I diddn't have any thought-provoking, revolutionary thoughts. My thoughts were limited to "What was that noise?", and then when I diddn't hear it again, several minutes later it was, "I wonder how long it's been?" (it'd been 3 minutes) That shut me up 'till it'd been 7 minutes. So, we've assessed that I can sit still, even if absolutly nothing happens. That's why I quit long ago. I felt silly, sitting there like a lump, with no thoughts at all, and not having anything come from it. Is there something I should focus on? | ||
| Phoenix |
Hi Raven Wolf, Good going! Early morning is a good time for you, then. If you can practice twice a day, that would be good, too. Late afternoon, maybe? (Not before bed! ) Please don't expect thought-provoking or revolutionary ideas at this point! That is why many people quit - their expectations outrun their actual progress. Take it easy, and slow! Try to release all expectations. There are reasons for this: if your attention is there, you won't be able to hear a message from here because you are not open and receptive. For example, say you are waiting for an important message. You stand in one room concentrating on the phone, waiting for it to ring, but the message comes by fax - which is in the next room, and you don't hear the fax machine ring and print your important message because you are concentrating on the phone! If you were standing in the doorway, you would hear either communication - phone or fax. That's what meditation does, it places you in the "doorway" so to speak. That is also why you really don't want to concentrate on any one thing, just put yourself in the "doorway," the blank and quiet area, and listen. When you can sit quietly for at least five minutes and it seems like only a minute or two, it is time to add minutes to your sitting. Add time to your meditation practice in five-minute increments....meditate for 10 minutes, 15 minutes, 20 minutes. Each time (at the 10-minute mark, at the 15-minute mark), add minutes only when the amount of time you meditate seems much shorter than actual time passed on the clock. Each level may take a week or two - seldom takes longer than three weeks unless there is an overload of stress in your life. (Ultimately, a meditation session of 15 to 20 minutes is optimal for someone looking for a relaxation practice. For spiritual pursuits, 45 minutes a day is common, and over an hour daily is not out of the question. You can decide when you get to the 20-minute mark if you want to pursue it further.) By "something I should focus on" do you mean something to think about, or something to look at? Honestly, looking at anything is only going to distract you from your purpose of finding the blank area, the Void as some call it. Remember, you need to be in the "doorway." Focusing on the breathing is about the most important thing to do at this point. If you absolutely must think about something, think about relaxing the energy in your body. Start with your feet and work your way up to the top of your head. Feel how each part of your body becomes calm and relaxed as you sit quietly. Be very specific with this: toes, feet, ankles, calves, knees, and so on. The muscles around every bone and joint area get equal attention. No fair lumping main body parts together, either! You can do it by bone or joint areas; for example, pelvic bone area, spine (vertebrae by vertebrae), ribcage, shoulders, neck, and so on. By the way, this type of meditation is great for muscle and joint problems. Try that and see if it works. If not, maybe alternating sitting meditation with some walking meditation will be helpful. You're doing fine with the sitting, though...keep up the good work! Phoenix | ||
| Raven Wolf |
Thanks, Phoenix, I'll have to give this another try, when people give me a little peace and quiet. Please forgive me for making a little joke... All this talk of sitting quietly, and having no thoughts at all, made me think... "This sounds like "zoning out", which got me in a heap of trouble in school! ~Raven Wolf | ||
| Phoenix |
Well, actually, it is a zoning out of sorts. Good luck to you in your zoning-out practice! Phoenix | ||
| Raven Wolf |
LOL! Thanks! Did a lot of Zoning-out outside today.... Diddn't get a lot out of it, but it was kinda fun. Raven Wolf | ||
| adnan |
hi all, the discussion seems to be over but, I have still something to say. phoenix is really wonderfuf. I admire his energy and generosity. still I have perhaps a different concept for meditation not like the professional one phoenix have. that didn't mean mine is better but, it works magic for me. for raven, you ask for some focus. yes, I say: after attaining nothingness and being relaxed and relieved, start speaking gently to yourself: you are good, you are fine, you are healthy ( at least better than some others) you... sure enough you could find many fantastic qualities in your character. pick it out to yourself and... be truthful. you may imagine how others love you and do favors for you for mere generosity. the stock of positive thoughts is infinite, use it in every occasion especially when experiencing meditation and you'll be surprised when you'll see wonderfou changes in your character. you'll be happier and optimistic. but it takes some time, till you acquire the habit. sorry if I seemed something like a teacher but I didn't intend to. I think you are very good, deep in your heart but life demands lot of things, and here we are. wish you and phoenix and others, utter happiness. | ||
| Raven Wolf
|
adnan Thanks for your support. I think one of my main problems would be a lack of belief that there are such positive aspects to myself to focus on. I feel egotistacal and realy bad for saying or thinking such things. I've been taught that's a bad thing to do. This is, I'm sure, my greatest challange in life, since every time I accomplish something, I feel good, then ashamed, so I've stopped everything. This makes being optimistic and positive very difficult. I wish you the same happiness you wished me, and thank you for your time. | ||
| Phoenix |
Hi adnan, Thanks for your additional information on the meditation topic. It is always good to hear what you have to say. You have excellent energy and great ideas, too! Phoenix | ||
| adnan |
Hi all, What a happy news Raven! I'm happy to hear that, from you although it is - as it seems- disappointing for you. You know, the difficult item for a doctor in diagnosing a disease is to find the cause. You were the doctor in here, and you were brilliant . Yes, let me say, if allowed, negative thoughts are the main trouble in your whole life. I sensed it from almost the beginning. On the other hand, positive ones are the prescription to solve perhaps all your problems, and meditation is the way helping you to do that. I wonder: who said that positive thoughts are bad?! All religions on earth like you to be happy and get the good out of everything. The goal of all reformers and philosophers, is to direct you to real deep happiness. You said you were taught it is bad to do that. Who taught you that? your parents? your teachers? I doubt! your parents probably, asked you not to have risks in doing so and so. It is their duty to protect you, and if you modified their instructions to appear as blocking your way to happiness, then it is up to you. When you accomplish something then you feel ashamed? well, it seems you dislike yourself. It is strange! eh? but it is the truth (in my opinion)in some way. You need from yourself such and such, and you can't do that. so, you think you are worthless. Raven, you need to reconcile with yourself. It is unjust to force yourself to do more than it can. Take it easy! it is more to be happy than to accomplish. And trust me: happy characters achieve matters easily and do them completely and perfectly. And, who said you didn't do somthing? all this in the net, and nothing? And, you didn't have any quality in your character? don't you love someone and care for him or her or...it? It is enough since it means you have a big heart. It is your duty for yourself now, after reconciliation , to search for all the good aspects that are deep in yourself, and uncover them in the face of you. I'm sure you'll find dozens. Free yourself and be happy, and don't believe anyone in the universe who doubt in your right to be worthy of love and happiness. For phoenix, I'm sorry for thinking you 'he', but it happens. your words are a remedy for the soul. Good luck for you all. | ||
| Raven Wolf
|
Thanks for your response. I'll try to answer you as best as I can. The "docter" may find the cause of a symtom, and diagnose a diesease, but if it is incurable, or, at the very least, difficult to treat, it can be quite distressing. I agree with your thought that negativity is the main cause of my problems. Let me try to give you a little background, without boring you too much. I was born with a disability, which diddn't allow me to be as active as others my age. I was just disabled enough to not be allowed to play sports, or much of anything as a child, but not disabled enough for most people to believe there was anything realy wrong with me. They thought I was faking it, and that diddn't make me any friends in school or with teachers. Add to that, 2 parents in a miserable marrage. Constant fighting from as early in my life as I can remember. One of the reasons for the fighting was the state of the house we live in. No insulation, no heat, the kitchen floor sagging so that I wondered when I'd fall through. I never had a single friend in my house throughout my childhood and teen years. And add to that the fact that I tended to be a good listener, so my mother used me as an unpaid theropist, telling me all her troubles and how miserable she was. It diddn't take long for me to view myself as the reason she was still married to my father (though he made me as miserable as he did her), and to feel like a total "mistake", because, in my thinking, a child should be the product of 2 people's love, and since they obviously weren't ment to be together, then I, by rights, should never have been born. All this guilt eventualy took it's toll on me, and you have what you see today. (by the way, they are still married, and I'm still stuck living with them...and the fights have changed to a kind of slow, quiet, blanketing blackness of anger and resentment) Even someone who just wanted to do "normal" things would have a hard time in such circumstances, but instead, I have to be weird, and be too disabled to just leave and do what I want to do. So, I'm still waiting. Surrounded by this much negativity, is it any wonder I'm this negative, too? When I accomplish something, or when I look realy good, I feel guilty because of Mom. She has said from the beginning..."Someday, you'll get out of here. I'm stuck in this forever." And, in regards to my looks, I'm not that bad to look at, but neither is she. Still, she sees me as far better looking than her, so that makes me feel guilty too. And, remember how Christianity teaches us to all be humble? Add all this together, and you have a receipie for disaster. If you'd like to see a picture of me, you can find one at my on-line Photo storage... http://img67.photobucket.com/albums/v204/RavenWolf1013/ Here's a link right to a page with a picture of me, one of me and my fiance, and one of one of my cats and one of my dogs. http://img67.photobucket.com/albums/v204/RavenWolf1013/My%20Pictures/ Thank you again for your loving and insightful response. I look forward to further correspondance. | ||
| adnan |
Raven, My heart was squeezing with pain reading your words. I didn't help myself from wetting my eyes, although I'm a man and somewhat old. I'm sorry if my words in some places, perhaps, aroused some grief and sorrow to your good hear. I knew you have a disability, but not the sad background you described. Raven, my heart is with you, and I suppose everyone who may read your story , especially Phoenix, ( my hate up to her) will have the same sympathy with you. Ok, your state is bad. Let's not lie to each other but, didn't you ask yourself how many people around the world who didn't even find a piece of bread to eat. Or how many who didn't have a ceiling to protect them foom cold and rain. You argue saying that we are both in amiserable state, and moreover, the miserable state of the soul and mind, surpasses that of the body. No Raven, I passed some similar state in the past. Persons here suffer from both generally. And war, could you endure to be in real war when you are not responsible. Look around you in the world, and see the tragedies everywhere. You are lucky in so many numerous ways. At least you have mom and dad. I'd lost my dad since I was two or three years old, and there after we all lived in a real misery. I was imprisoned in a bad unjust orphanage for more than ten years when I was not guilty except of losing my dad. You see!? your background is better than mine, and than some many others.Laugh now!! be joyful!! But I'm optimistic in the face of life now, after being very pessimistic. I struggled to be that and you should, and you can. Things change certainly. I saw your photos. You are wonderful!! you don't worth all that pain and misery. Your parents should know that. But did you try kindly, to kindle a candle between your dad and mom? I know now I'm very foolish to say that but, perhaps... At last, I look forward for phoenix to support me in that matter, and I think he could, unless he is busy or... Raven, our hearts are with you. Be brave and happy. Smile now! | ||
| Raven Wolf
|
Thank you for your kind, loving words, and for your compliment. And, yes, I think of the misery of the rest of the world on a dayly basis. Unfortunatly, that just adds to my guilt, since I then don't think I have any right to want anything better in my life, since, others, (like mom) are worse-off than myself. I just have to somehow find a way to rise above the sorrow of my own life, and the burdons of all others as well. Sometimes, I literaly feel the weight of the world on my shoulders. And, when something good happens, I have a hard time enjoying it and being joyful, feeling the misery of so many others. Like my finace now. He's the most wonderful man I've ever known, and I am so blessed to have him in my life. But, I feel guilty for having his love, since Mom's stuck with Wayne. (my father) Oh, by they way....After 30 years like that, there is no possibility of reconceliation. My father (Wayne) needs to take some time and work on his own issues, before ever considering a relationship of any sort. On the bright side, I have found a web-site of paranormal investigaters, and have begun a correspondance with them, (in the last 48 hours) and the woman there doesn't seem to think I'm crazy. Oh, and Phoenix is a woman. Thanks again, and I'll be back later. | ||
| Phoenix |
Hi Raven and adnan, adnan, sorry to hear that you lost your father so young, and that your childhood was so difficult. I admire you for the positive development in your life! It couldn't have been easy. I can see both sides of this problem, though. Raven, it is certainly important to look at what you did have and be appreciative (although I can also see why you wouldn't have been). It hardly seems possible, but it could have been worse... On the other hand, my childhood was a lot like yours...parents fighting constantly; I often wished they would get a divorce, but they never did. My dad wasn't home often because Mom drove him out, and she blamed me for her miserable life: "If you hadn't been born, I could have _________." She "could have" been many things if she hadn't had to stay home and take care of me and my brother, and because I was firstborn and a worthless girl to boot, it was all my fault! My brother was the greatest thing since sliced bread! (On the other hand, I do believe she was mentally ill - possibly undiagnosed manic/depressive. She would rant for days, then be silent for days; sometimes when she was manic, she wrote swear words on the walls. I had nowhere to go to get away from it, and was afraid to bring friends home because I never knew what kind of reception they would get; she had no problem whatsoever yelling at whoever came within earshot of her, friends, relatives, perfect strangers.) My friendships were rather one-sided: "Let's go to Your house!" On the other-other hand, I did have a roof over my head, heat and hot water, clothes (often used), and food on the table. No bombs were going off on my street, no soldiers marching by my school. So, yeah, it could have been worse, though I didn't think so at the time. Its all what you make it....and I think that people who have a difficult time early in life begin to seek spiritual solutions sooner, and in more depth. So, maybe there is an advantage to all that strife. Hang in there...you really can do it! Phoenix | ||
| Raven Wolf |
Phoenix, Just time for a short response, but I can relate to your story, though my mom's not as manic as what you described. Yes, I agree, there are many people who have it a lot worse than we do. At the same time, that shouldn't mean that we "settle" for less and accept abuse, however mild by comparison, or never strive for a better life. I think you'd agree with that, too. anan... Let me say again how I appreciate your response, and the sharing of your story, and I'm so sorry things have been so hard for you. The quality of your caracter, as well as that of Phoenix's, is a true testimate to "grace under fire". Love to all of you and good-night. ~Raven Wolf | ||
| Phoenix |
Hi Raven, Oh, I do completely agree that we should never settle for being abused.... However, think about this: your parent treats you abusively, and at the same time (because no one knows what is really going on in your house) everyone else tells you your mother loves you and is doing what is right and best for you. Remember, you are a young child with immature reasoning capability: what are you going to think? That someone being abusive toward you means they love and care about you! Even after you grow up and know better, it's very difficult to set aside that earlier learning, love=abuse. As a child, I never thought I was being abused, and in fact I don't really consider myself "abused" now though clinically the psychologists would say "Yes" to that. Keep in mind, a child often does not have any experiences to compare to, nor any information to tell them they are being treated abusively; when I was a kid, I thought this was Normal and that everyone's life was like this! Hey, it's way cool that you found the website of paranormal investigators! I'm sure they can help you, or at least point you in the right direction to further your studies. Phoenix | ||
| Raven Wolf |
Wonderfuly stated! Raven Wolf | ||
| adnan |
Hi Raven and Phoenix, Ravin, I mentioned the misery in the world just to let you see yourself better and thank God since you are not worse. You need not feel the responsibility of all the faults done in the world although we sure, feel sorry for all the tortured souls on there. We are not guilty, so why should be condemned?! If others are worse, it dosn't mean we must deprive ourselves from our right to be happy. Am I not right phoenix? Tell Raven then! It is true likewise in the relation between you and your mother or... your father. You must disjoint between the sympathy toward your mom and being happy. Being happy dosn't mean you have bad feelings toward your mother (or do you have, which is certainly unjust and harmful). You can take a frank permission from her, kindly discussing the matter. Come on then, you may draw a fascinating smile onto your face and try to tell jokes to your mom, so she could rejoice in turn. Why not? If there is misery everywhere in our area, there certainly must be some spaces to be happy within. If these spaces were narrow, it is our duty to widen them. And if this looks hard why not try. And you have a duty towards your fiance. You have to make him happy. If you kept appearing sad and sorrowful, then woooooh, it is very bad indeed. so, be cheerful in every opportunity till it becomes a habit. And your fiance will adore you. No one need or desire to be sad. Laugh lovingly at everything, at every incident. pick up the bright side of every event. Make jokes of them. It seems I'm crazy or foolish to say all this. Sorry but I meant to be a good means for you to uprise and change your life. I wish you good luck making use of the website found. And phoenix, really you are the remedy to suffering souls. Your words do cure every wound in that field. It seems you are highly educated. And your soul, I admire that soul. My hat (not hate,sorry) up for you. Your story resemble ours. So we are in the same basket. But you are wise in handling the matter, and hence the admiration. I thank you again for your response to support me for Raven. You really did well. I had some difficulties with both my PC and the net. Awful!!!! so sorry for anything. I wish you both and every one reading this, full happiness and consolation. | ||
| Raven Wolf |
A lovely and appreciated response, indeed. Let me say 1st, I don't have bad feelings towards my mother. If I did, it would probably make things easier, because I wouldn't be so concerned for her happiess and for her good openion of me. I am, however, frustrated, as can be clearly seen by now. Let me also say that, according to every theropist and spiritualist I have ever heard of, I do not HAVE to MAKE my fiance happy. That is not my responsibility. One of the oft-repeated things about having a healthy relationship is to not depend on the other person to MAKE you happy. It is no more my *responsibility* to MAKE him happy than it is for him to make ME happy! I am responsible for my own happiness, as he is responsible for his. So, the more acurate phrase would be "I owe it to Myself to Make Myself Happy, and, in so doing, I will lighten the heart of my beloved. Thank you, one and all. That is all I have to say. | ||
| VOS |
Very well said. | ||
| adnan |
Hi Raven, Sorry for all what I wrote. It seems I was rude enough to upset you, and my ideas seem to be false. So cancel them all please and consider them nothing. Excuse me a thousand times please. I was so crazy! I hope you full satisfaction. | ||
| Raven Wolf |
adnan, It's ok! I wasn't mad or upset at all. You're intitled to your openions/beliefs just as much as I am mine. You're not crazy...LOL! I tried to receive your message with the intent with which it was written. I knew you were not trying to be rude, or to upset me, so I simply stated what is *truth* to me and let it go. (((((HUG)))) | ||
| adnan |
Raven, God bless you. You have a good heart. I hope you reach all what you need. | ||
| Raven Wolf |
Merry Christmas! | ||
| Phoenix |
Hi adnan, Thank you for the compliments. You also are an empathic, and compassionate person. I knew you meant "hat." I have to add, about all this happiness, that it's true - one person cannot make another happy, but neither should we concentrate on only our own happiness and expect the "trickle down effect" to make the people around us happy. I've been married for 32 years, and for the last year my husband has lived in another state, visiting home about every third weekend during the spring, summer, and fall. Winter trips are infrequent because he would have to fly here, and that gets expensive! He'll be home for a week at Chirstmas, but then we probably won't see each other until March! However, we do talk on the phone for an hour every night. Now, there are plenty of times I could answer the phone and say, "Wow, you would not believe the awful day I had! This happened, and that happened, and then something else happened..." and so on. But I don't because that would cause unhappiness. Instead, I save it for later in the conversation. When I answer the phone, I try to say something nice, or funny, to make him feel good, make him glad he called instead of wanting to hang up because he's had a long, difficult day too, and really doesn't need to be greeted with problems and such. He's the same way - he doesn't start out with, "I had the Most Awful Day, you won't believe this..." He is sensative to the tone that is set as the conversation begins. I think that this is how the comment about making someone else happy was meant - that we should do whatever possible to create a living environment which fosters happiness. Let's face it, it's darn difficult to be happy if you live with someone who is consistently unhappy whether you are "responsible" for them or not! Phoenix | ||
| Raven Wolf |
Phoenix, I'm sorry to hear of the great distance between you and your husband. I know that makes things difficult. My fiance is 700 miles away, too, and we only get to talk at night as well. I agree with what you have stated here. It's not about some "formula" for how to behaive, and when to say and do what.... It IS, in fact, choosing your words and your actions out of LOVE for the other person. At the same time, this love for another must be ballanced with a healthy amount of "self-love". I think we, as women, have been taught to always put aside our feelings for the feelings of others, and that's not always healthy. Terry would be the first person to tell me that if something's bothering me. Open communication is what has been the backbone of our relationship...and, after more failures than I wish to count, it's a wonderful feeling to finaly feel I'm on the right track with someone. ~Raven Wolf | ||
| adnan |
Hi all, Great Phoenix!! Great! You are sensible, wise and prudent. I thank you for all what you said because, it assured some ideas I believe in, while - for a while- they seemed faulty; or at least it contradicted the current culture in the west. I suppose you adressed me by some few sentences, but the rest were intented especially for Good Raven. You again put my wrong-handled ideas in what seemed a sophisticated high style expressions. However, I do stick to the idea that one could make others be happy, although I suspend for now - for the sake of Raven- the duty for every soul to make others happy especially those whom we love. Sorry for the troubles you have with your husband due to circumstances, but I surmise you both are very happy together since you handle the matter in that way. I wish you have everlasting success in that field. Raven, I agree with you that it is not healthy to put aside our feelings for the sake of others. And one must have a big amount of self-love. Morover, one must show his true feelings, and ... besides, in my opinion, be very lovable and kind to others. Happy days for all. | ||
| Phoenix |
Hi Raven Wolf, That's it totally - partnership. I think you are right in spite of all the "women's lib" and burning of undergarments of the 1960s - in subtle ways, and maybe not-so-subtle ways, women are still taught that everyone else comes first, and You (any woman) are told you'd better "grin and bear it" with the implication that, if you can't, there's something wrong with You! I do think it's changed a lot, though. Now women are encouraged to make/take time for themselves; used to be that if you did, you were abominably selfish! How will we know when we're finally there? Just like the space age - if the launch of a rocket isn't news, you know it's become a part of everyday living. Likewise, when womens' magazines stop publishing monthly articles that tell us we need to take time for ourselves, we need to be good to ourselves, it will be because we are already doing it. I hope it won't take another 40 years! Phoenix | ||
| Phoenix |
Hi adnan, Yes, partly my response was for Raven, but also I was hoping my interpretation of your idea was correct. (I love the wisdom you share. ) I think some people may have bristled at the word "duty:" requirement, obligation, something you must do. The culture (counter-culture?!) of my generation in the West, and probably Raven's generation too, are free-wheeling, free spirited, "make love not war," "everything I do is by choice" people. The word "duty" makes us cringe. We think, "Duty? My only duty is to myself!" It's not quite that severe, really, but it paints the picture of the culture. The funny thing is, if we believe "we are all one," we really do have the duty to do as much as we can to support and uplift everyone we meet because if they are us, when we don't care about them, we are really saying we don't care about ourselves, either! (Hope that isn't too convoluted! ) All that aside, we may agree to disagree on one point: I don't think we can "make" someone else happy. We can try, but people we encounter will react to our overtures of kindness based on their own past and experiences. We have no control over their reactions. I could give the same gift to two people; one might be happy to receive it because it's something he/she always wanted, the other might be unhappy because it reminds him/her of an unpleasant or unhappy experience. So, I've tried to make them both happy, but being happy is really up to them. Phoenix | ||
| Raven Wolf |
Phoenix, That last paragraph is EXACTLY what I was trying to say! Thank You! Where my "duty" lies, in regards to my fiance, (or any of my friends and family) is to LOVE him, and treat him the way I would like to be treated. We were all taught that at a very early age. Yes, I agree that a great deal of the culture has become TOO self-serving, believing no-one matters but themselves, but the rest are just the opposite, believing they must "give 'till it hurts", because they are taught to be that way. Therein lies the problem. No ballace. Like with many things these days, no-one seems to have any concept of a *grey* aria. It's one or the other. Either you're "saved", or your going to hell, sink or swim, black and white, replublican or democrat. People make up all these "rulls", but it's all made up! It makes me laugh. Ok, I'll get off my soap-box. ~Raven | ||
| adnan |
Hi Phoenix, Yes, you put the term "duty" in its place. I grasped immediately what you meant about it. And you were sure right. Or at least, we shared the same opinion. On the other side, I wonder why we disagree about the other idea. I'm just sure that one can make others happy. It is obvious! I won't argue but I remember, so many persons who made me happy, and some still making me so. I agreed so far, to all what you posted. Your ideas were wonderful and impressive! They were marvelous indeed, and you worth deep respect. However, I wonder, why didn't we agree in that field?! It's strange!! Though, I deeply respect your opinion. Happy days for all. | ||
| Raven Wolf |
Maybe because, like with so many other things in life, we (speaking of ALL people, not you and I...as I know you were talking to Phoenix) simply have a different definition for the same word. For me, personaly, I take "make" very literaly. For example, if you and I were hanging out somewhere, having dinner, let's say, and you had a realy bad headache, you'd just had a fight with your boss, the weighter got your dinner order wrong, and you'd just had a flat tire, which had caused you to be late to get there anyway...YOU'D BE PISSED! I, then, would start telling you it was ok, being pleasant, telling you jokes, etc. But IF YOU JUST DON'T WANT TO CHANGE YOUR MOOD, YOU WON'T! And, the thing is....I HAVE NO CONTROL OVER THAT SITUATION. (I'm not shouting. I'm emphasizing, and I don't have the nack of changing text colors to do that yet.) How I feel is my choice. And how YOU feel is YOUR choice. No one can *make* you feel a certain way. Like... You can't *make* someone love you, if they don't. All you can do is be who you are. The rest is their choice. I hope that helps. | ||
| Phoenix |
That was basically where I was trying to go...if you have someone who just insists on being depressed, sad, angry (and some people do!), no one on earth can make them happy. Of course, it's always worth the try....you never know what little gesture or word will make all the difference in the world. Phoenix | ||
| adnan |
Hi all, Raven, the problem with you and I is probably, we couldn't understand each other. Or at least, we couldn't explain our views clearly. I'm discussing happiness and pleasant mood generally. Previously, I acknowledged that everyone has ups and downs. It's the real life. If it were not that, we woudn't know the joy,the pleasure and satisfaction out of it. What did you mention as examples of every day trouble and irritation, is right certainly, but they go later, and we may get pleasant times instead. You know!! what I had some days before, would have made me crazy. In the meantime, my pc wouldn't (post) completely. Ok, I had another pc at home. I brought it to my office, then I powered it on. It functioned perfectly. Good, I would make some configurations and change some pieces of hardware so I can connect to the net, and bid help from some sites. The net? funny! The provider had had troubles with the company and no one could know when it comes. When I made the changes to the new pc, I booted it and, oh! very awful! it wouldn't (post) either. The same problem. Every trial led to failure. My head felt as if it would explode. What to be done?! Ok, I was in the depths of troubles. I hereafter, left everything in its place, sat back away from every scattered here and here piece... and laughed!! yes laughed. Why not?! I thanked my God who gave me the ability to try to fix what is wrong, and thanked myself (yes myself) for the effort exerted. Tomorrow, I'll by a new hardware for a new look pc. Sorry for the long story but it seemed suitable. However, IF YOU JUST DON'T WANT TO CHANGE YOUR MOOD, YOU WON'T! You are deep right in here! but Of course, it's always worth the try....you never know what little gesture or word will make all the difference in the world. (remedy of souls). But why you don't want? WHY YOU DON'T WANT? I wonder! It is very strange! I say... try if you wanted, and bit by bit it will be a habit. I say try and let meditation help you... if first, you wanted. My regards to the (remedy of souls) good Phoenix, and my consolations to all those going with wounded hearts. |